Originally posted by: cream on 5/10/2007 6:36:05 PM

I do want to thank all of you for your kind words of comfort, but I am NOT going to let these . . . . FOOLS out here force me to go against my vow NOT to take the power life and death into my hands again....Mindy, you were lucky....you only blew a few holes into some fixtures that could easily be replaced....me,...I blew away half of an innocent mans right shoulder while he was sitting on his front stoop across the street from where I lived in Philadelphia while shooting at a burglar that had come into our home by way of the cross roof of our second floor....my shot was wide from the dining room going into the living room and I missed, the shot went through the window frame and stopped in the door frame of our neighbor after going through his shoulder.

Even though I had a permit to own and was in my own home, there were a number of repercussions to bear....the hardest of which was though the guy didn't die, I cost him his ability to support his family with my errant shot....he was a truck driver, home on vacation, and just enjoying the night air in the summertime.

He and his family were understandibly angry with me for the incident but he did forgive me for it in time, and he understood why I did what I did....but to this day I still don't think it was worth the price that was paid for my bad judgement that night.

I turned both my handguns over to the law that very week while still under investigation for the shooting and vowed never to possess another one again....that could easily have been someone's child or their very life....that kind of power is really frightening....I DO value human life, I don't want to cost someone else their life....so I would rather leave it all alone.

Originally posted by: cookiewiz on 5/10/2007 7:46:15 PM

when I lived in Charleston and my ex husband was out to sea, I slept with a loaded gun. I worked nights and slept days,which is when most break ins occur.(so I am told) I told the place I was renting from that I slept with a loaded gun, and they better call and wake me up before they ever came in, because I would shoot.
Well, they came in one day, and didn't call first. I heard someone walking up my stairs (I lived in a town house)I threw open my bedroom door and leveled the gun at this poor guys head. God must have been sitting on my shoulder, because I did not fire. Normally I would have shot first and asked questions later,but for some reason I held off firing the gun. Thank God I did. That day I got rid of all of our guns, and have never had another one in my house. I came too close to ending someones life,and I realized I could not ever live with that. I learned to shoot a gun before I went to kindergarten. I grew up in St. Louis, but we were always at Grandma and Grandpas farm. We learned very young how to handle a gun, and never never point it at anyone...unless you meant to kill someone. I was 20 when I almost shot that poor man. I am so glad Andrew never grew up with guns around all the time.
Its funny my dad and I were just talking about this, this very morning.

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/10/2007 8:40:00 PM

Cream, Jayne, I understand where both of you are coming from. That is why I feel you should get your training from a Professional Firearm Instructor, not only do I teach a person how to handle it safely, but what type of projectile is best for your area, and when to and when not to shoot. Plus all the laws pertaining to the use of the weapon. And other ways to protect yourself so a firearm is not needed.
Let face it this is serious business and shouldn't be taken lightly. But at the same time if you wait for someone else to protect you it ain't going to happen, unless you want to pay a team of Professional Protection Officer to watch over you 24/7. And that cost depends if you want a "babysitter" or you have reason to believe someone is after you. Since I feel my life i valueable, you will pay dearly for the latter. and only $25.00 an hour for the former is the normal rate in most places.
Mindy, there are 4 Cardinal Rules of Firearm Safety, Annnnnd # 3 is: Keep your Finger off the trigger and away from the trigger guard, until on target and ready to fire. (that saves bathrooms and other things)
Also you need to know what caliber is right for you. And what is the Stopping power of your projectile.
And it takes pratice, pratice, and more pratice. I shoot between 2,000 and and 3,000 rounds a year out of the three firearms I carry. (not all at once.)And can cut a playing card in half firing at the edge of the card at 5 yards. Plus I go to professional training courses to make me even better to teach, so when I train someone they have the best training money can buy.
All I am trying to say if you want to own a firearm ad take charge of your protection, get Professional training.

Originally posted by: d.orcaluver on 5/10/2007 10:43:17 PM

I feel that having a firearm is a very personal choice and should be gone into with the utmost reverence for it's power. I do not at this time own a handgun because my hands used to hurt too much to fire one and now it is more than I want to spend on something I don't feel I need at this time. That does not mean that I don't have weapons at home however my weapon of choice requires me to be very sure of my aim and I am equally as deadly with it since I would only shoot a human that is putting me or my family in immediate danger and I would have no problem aiming to kill. For those of you that don't know, I was training for the olympics in archery and have hunted with one for over 25 years. I feel a weapon is safe as long as you are proficient with it and follow safety procedures, but accidents do happens no matter how careful you are. Please remember..... the deadliest weapon is the family car so wield it accordingly.

Originally posted by: dd11 on 5/11/2007 8:16:08 AM

I told my DH when we move that I want to take firearm classes since we will be living in the woods. There is a range in town.

Lloyd, any pointers on finding a good
instructor?

Cream, sorry about your troubles in the neighborhood.

Originally posted by: SouChef on 5/11/2007 8:49:10 AM

I'm with Debby on the choice of owning a firearm. I have shot hand guns (22 & 45) in the past, but I would rather not do so now with my arthritis. I believe in them for hunting, though I would be more inclined to use a bow and arrow.

Guns should be used only in cool-headed conditions. When they are used under split-second, hot-headed decisions then they seem to be used to control someone else. Too many murders are based on someone wanting something their way. Heat of the moment isn't the best way to think and having a gun in the mix only makes matters worse. Plus I would be willing to bet that none of those who murder took Lloyd's class or any class for that matter. Being a responsible gun owner is paramount to not being lumped in the same class as criminals.

We like to think we live in a civilized society, but we don't and I wonder if we ever will. I pray for all who have been killed by someone who decided to play God instead of remaining human.

Mary

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/11/2007 10:21:04 AM

Mary, I am sure you are right, normally crooks don't try to learn anything, that is why I was speaking of lawabinding people. I knew of a crook who had to steal a new gun everytime it was empty because he didn't know how to load the magazine. And I stated you must know when and how to use them. And if you use them wrong you will, and should be held responcible for your action. Annnd I am not telling anyone that handguns are the answer, all I am saying if you feel the need, make darn sure you know how and when and pratice, pratice, pratice.
Dee, not knowing the laws in your state, I would check with the local Law Enforcement, or go online to the NRA website and see if they have any local instructors in your area. OOOORRRR you can move to SA, and have me as an Instructor.

Originally posted by: inapickle on 5/11/2007 4:49:21 PM

Hey Lloyd since folks have personal chefs, and personal shoppers and well almost anything they want can have a personal person willing to do the job, (keep in mind even "Nanny 911 travels to where ever) You Could be a personal firearms instructor for all that want to learn the proper use and respect of firearms. Now remember when you start up your own PFAI I get 25% for all the customer base that you establish. Hey after all you'll get; travel, income, and think of how you'll make the world a better and safer place due to your careful and wise instruction
inapickle

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/11/2007 5:40:03 PM

That is a great ideal, Pickle. However each state has its own rules for being a instructor, are you willing to pay 25% of the cost for each state?

Originally posted by: inapickle on 5/11/2007 7:31:48 PM

uhhhhhhh let me check the piggy bank;

Originally posted by: dd11 on 5/11/2007 8:03:25 PM

Lloyd,

I looked at the NRA site, and there are several places in OH near our new house. They offer a course in basic pistol.

Is this the right class for a novice?

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/12/2007 6:22:24 AM

Dee, Yes that is a very good class to start with, and they should offer Home Firearm safety, Home Personal Protection. These are the ones I would suggest you to take. Of course I offer a lots more, but for a beginner these are great.

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/12/2007 6:35:42 AM

I am taking my son shopping for his Birthday present, and later today I will share an analogy we use in our circle to explain our philosphy on protection.

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/12/2007 7:16:17 PM

Hi family, some of you will love this and other will probabily go baaaaaaad. But here we go anyway.
In today's society there are basicly three kinds of people. There is the human predator,some time called wolves, who prey on the weak, old, very young, and those not willing or able to protect themselves. This group is commonly call sheep and on the most part follow the one who baaaas the loudness. And on the most part accept the Predators as a way of life, and nothing they can do about it. this brings us to the last group known as sheepdogs, these are your Polices, Fireman, Military, and Security Officers. This group are sworn to protect the sheep even if it means sacrificing their own lifes in the process.
In today's society We have more predators than sheepdogs, and on the most part the sheepdogs are restricted on how far they can go to protect by another type of predator call Trial Lawyers, (Not all lawyer including trial lawyer falls in this class but enough to make it bad on the rest.)
So with this all said, what is needed is more sheepdogs to protect themselves and others. And that my friends is where I and other instructors come in, Training people to protect themselves and others. And to be honest I feel very pleased with myself and the students I have trained.
Last year I had 3 of my students who was able to use the training they received and save 3 lifes, I had no students that had to pull a weapon, nor any who lost their lives in the line of duty. So I must be doing something right.
If we are to remain a free nation, we must take responsibility for our own protection and help those that can't.
I know this is a little long winded, but felt it was needed to be said. Hu

Originally posted by: cream on 5/12/2007 9:31:44 PM

And very well said it is Lloyd....and if I lived closer to you I would gladly become one of your "Pad e wan learners" for sure! You take what you do with all seriousness Lloyd, and that's a good thing, and I HAVE been thinking about re-arming, but as you have been saying...."with proper training"....but this time NO .44 MAGNUM!

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/13/2007 4:22:49 PM

Cream, I understand where you are coming from. If I may make a suggestion, I would suggest a 9MM as a to carry and home protection. There are several good manufactors out there so I will leave the choice to you. However I must say pay very close attention to the TYPE of projectile you use. You will need one that will stop the aggresstion but not go thru and hit another. There are two I carry, My number one choice is Expanding Full Metal Jacket by Federal, now don't confuse this with the Full Metal Jacket. My number two choice and backup is the Powerball by Cor Bon. Both of these expands 100% of the time and that is what you need for stopping.
There is a lot more to consider but I find these two works for me.
I hope this helps you and anyother that might need help.

Originally posted by: dd11 on 5/13/2007 5:13:38 PM

Thanks for the information, Lloyd.

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/15/2007 3:25:43 PM

Has anybody heard from Cream?

Originally posted by: Nicki Thomason on 5/16/2007 2:33:06 PM

Lloyd,
I was wondering what your opinion on Taser/stun (sp?) guns were. Would you reccomend them for using them for protection. I've seen a taser stick before and it seem to put off some power, but when it comes to having something around for protection I wasn't sure how effective it would be. I guess it wouldn't be too much protection if someone had a gun already pointed at me, but if I could get them down beforehand...?? Just not sure what to do.
I'm not home alone a whole lot, just trying to think of a safe way to keep me and my fiance safe.

Any info you could give me would be great. Also would you reccomend a gun that had been previously owned. A sporting good shop that is reputable sells them and they are a bit cheaper than a new one. Thanks.

Hope all is well with ya'all.

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/16/2007 3:05:44 PM

Snickers, there are 5 steps in the use of force in responce to aggrestion. In my opinion, anything you can use, short of deadly force, you are better off using. The stung gun is nice if you are up close, but staying away as far as possible is your best protection. (Distance + Time = Safety) In other words if you have a stung gun and someone graps you, zap the sucker, 42,000 amps is just what he needs. You might want to see if your local law enforcement offer a course in its use.
The taser is by far better, but you must be train in its use, and in some states it is illegal for citizens to own. So again check with your local law enforcement.(Plus the cost of a good taser is around $1,000.00, but again what is one's life worth.)
If you know how to check out a used gun, there is nothing wrong with the purchase of one, I have several pre-own guns, but just like pre-own cars: "buyer beware". But if it is a reputable dealer you shouldn't have a problem.
To keep this posting from being too long, I will post it then tell you the 5 steps.

Originally posted by: inapickle on 5/16/2007 3:37:47 PM

I have been trying to call Cream, no answer, so the hospital must have kept him, I have also tried Barbara, and no answer, so Papa Nick (Nick's dad) must be in really bad shape. Not a word from Cathy (Stephensgirl either)

Now as to protection topic. I saw an infomercial a week ago, it was for a flashlight, that is bright, it has a red laser beem, they claimed that an assailent cannot see you or what it is that has the red beem pointed at their chest or where ever, it has a built in can of very hot pepper spray or mace, (in case a perp is silly enough to move closer). It fires the spray in a stright and direct streem up to several feet away. So that a potential victim does not have to get to close to ward off the perp.
Looks rather useful. Lloyd have you seen heard or any comment on such an item?
pickle

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/16/2007 3:57:46 PM

Snickers, for your information The 5 steps are:
1. Command Presents: How one carrys themself, be alert of your surroundings, be alert of the people around you, and any escape routes you can take if necessary.
2. Verbal: How you speak to others, you can start or stop an incident by just what you say. There is no disgrace in walking away from an argument if you can do safely. And sometimes this is your best action.
3. Empty Hand Technique: These are technique you can learn to keep a person off of you or even control them with the minmum use of force. You can learn them from most Martial Art places, but some will want to teach you a whole discipline you might not want to learn, so tell them what you want. I know a place here that will teach self-defense for around $50.00 a month. And the secret to its use is Pratice, Pratice, Pratice.
4.Intermediate Weapons: This is anything short of Deadly Force. This could be a stung gun, taser, pepper spray, baton, flashlight and several other devices. But you must have training in the use of these weapons before you use them. Otherwise you can find yourself on the short end of the stick with the law. Again check with your local Law Enforcement.
5. Deadly Force: This is when all else has fell, and you have no choice but to possible take a life to protect yours or someone else's. And again I must say get training before you even try to use a firearm. And know your local laws also. Remember there is no disgrace in leaving if you can do so safely.
Well I hope this helps, and of course I am not trying to teach a class online, but to give my friends a little information where you can protect yourseves better. There are other things to know but this is a start.

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/18/2007 2:24:12 AM

Hello family, well went to the doctor with a stupid "summer" cold, which is our way of having a upper respicratory infection. But believe it or not to get it check out right after it start. (uh, yes Mike. David and Ellie threat to do me bodly harm if I didn't, at Miss Tommie's request.) So I should be getting better in the next day or so, just another delay, darn.

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/18/2007 2:29:45 AM

Oh by the way, the doctor said to drink plenty of liquids,I though that was cool. But Ellie pointed out she mean mostly WATER. Darn another excuse shot down. (Just joking, I rarely drink anything but water now.)

Originally posted by: michealjc on 5/18/2007 5:01:56 AM

Lloyd ... what the heck are they doing to you. Make you go to the doctor right away. Make you walk the straight and narrow. This just isn't the Lloyd that I have come to know. I am glad to see that you are taking care of yourself.

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/18/2007 5:38:24 AM

Well Mike now that Miss Tommie is doing so well, I afraid she will-------, I gues it is best to leave the rest unsaid.

Originally posted by: cake lady too on 5/18/2007 5:48:32 AM

Lloyd, take care of yourself. You and Miss Tommie will be the hosts with the most for next years gathering in SA! Please email me the address of where you'll be staying in June. I want to send you a pkg. and I'm sure there will be things in it from others besides me. LOL

I LOVE my car!! 42 mpg! Haven't put gas in it since I bought it and have put over 350 miles on it. I'll be going to Shipshewana, IN on May 29th. For those who don't know, this is a GIANT flea market. ACRES & ACRES!!! You can get practically everything there. I better update my list!!

Our baby polar bears are on display at the zoo now. I haven't made it over to that side of the zoo yet, but hope to next week. Considering that the wait is 1 1/2 + hours, I am SO GLAD I am a volunteer!! Obviously, they are quite a draw!

Mike, time in running out! Anything else I need to add to my list to bring?
Well, got lots of running to do and then the ZOO tonight. Been requested for the ZooPal raffle every year for the past 4 years. Guess we do a good job.
TTFN
Bethany

Originally posted by: michealjc on 5/19/2007 6:59:39 PM

Today we drove down to Mankato for my Aunt & Uncle's 50th wedding anniversary. My second cousin and his wife drove up in a costomized 1941 Cady Convertable. Whe I was looking at it I saw a special sticker on the wing window. 2006 National Street Rod Assoc. Car of the Year.
I offered him a $100 for it, told him old cars aren't worth much. Hum, he wouldn't sell it to me for that.

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/19/2007 8:52:13 PM

Mikieeee, you should have told himm how much gas he would save by selling it to you.

Originally posted by: HRM on 5/20/2007 8:06:01 AM

Hope this finds my family doing well this Sunday morning.

With the hours I've been working, I haven't had a chance to get on the boards much until this morning. Doing my best to catch up on reading and posting, and hoping I haven't missed responding to anyone.

Bethany - I remember when the otter exhibit first opened at Metrozoo here in Miami, it is still one of my favorite things to watch them at play.

Mike - great that you and Bonnie got to share in celebrating your Aunt & Uncle's milestone anniversary. I know it meant a lot to my A&U to have everyone who could attend at their 60th last year. Guess your cousin didn't crawl out from under a rock yesterday, did he? Better luck next time.

Originally posted by: michealjc on 5/24/2007 5:38:42 AM

Deb ... do you still have the Ark. I'm thinking we might need it up here. It started raining Tuesday late afternoon and is still raining.

GIVE AWAY ... one house guest and little boy. It looks like 7 months wasn't enough for her new landlord wasn't quite enough time to get the new carpeting in. So moving her out this weekend isn't going to happen.

Originally posted by: cake lady too on 5/24/2007 7:06:42 AM

So.....looks like we'll be meeting them.
Hang in there Mike. Look at the bright side. you'll have lots of company in 2 weeks and you won't even notice them!
Well, I am chaperoning for lunch today for the Band at McDonald's. Tonight is Ashley's last concert as an 8th grader. Tuesday she is being inducted into the Junior National Honor society, again? I'm very confused since she was inducted into it last year. Are there actually any schools that know what they are doing anymore?! She can only have one person go to the induction (last year she asked Grandpa), so Jim is going since I'll be in Shipshewana, IN for the day. Leaving at 6:30 a.m. This means he'll also have to drive her to her trumpet lesson for the first time.
Hopefully I can get everything on my list in shipshewana.
Counting down the days!
TTFN Bethany

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/24/2007 7:08:27 AM

Hey Mikieee, you are looking at this allllll wrong, wait until they do get settle in their place nice and comfortieee and just pop in one day with Bonnie for an extra long visit.

Originally posted by: michealjc on 5/24/2007 8:17:17 AM

Bethany ... I don't think you will have the chance to meet them. I told her to start figuring out plan B because come June 1st come heat or high water they are out. I also told her that Cabela's was having a tent sale going on now. Better than a cardboard box.

Lloyd ... sounds good in theary but I think it will be some time before I will see the need to visit them.

Originally posted by: 1dustychuck on 5/24/2007 9:21:11 AM

Mike,
Been reading about your woes, Yes, It may be time to say Whoa. Don't understand the length of time to lay some carpet. Around here Empire can lay a carpet in a matter of hours and even take away the old one. I hope that she hasn't been paying rent to the new Landlord if so then maybe I should go into the landlording business. Rent out a place and then tell them to hold off on moving in until the carpet gets laid and still collect the rent every month. Not a BAD racket!!!

Originally posted by: HRM on 5/24/2007 5:28:38 PM

Mike,

Wow, reading that certainly answers a question I had and I am sorry to hear your news. I can only tell my friend to hang in there and think positive {{{hugs}}}

Originally posted by: 1dustychuck on 5/25/2007 10:47:28 AM

Mikey,

Thanks for taking ALL of the RAIN. We didn't get a drop here in Illinois and we could sure use some real soon.
What are you going to do with all of that water? Save it and spread it around so that when all of the Folks show up you will be able to make their shoes go squish, squish, squeak, squish.

Originally posted by: cake lady too on 5/25/2007 11:25:29 AM

Hey Chuck, I don't want my shoes to go squish, squish, squeak, squish! I just bought all new tennis shoes! LOL We'll be passing through IL on The 7th we'll wave as we go by. Staying in Madison, WI area for the night. Mike tells me we'll then be about 6 hours from him! Guess I'll see what time we pull in Madison area on Thurs. Perhaps we'll push on to MN!!
Bethany

Originally posted by: 1dustychuck on 5/25/2007 12:43:13 PM

Yes, Madison is about an hour and a half from where I am at in far Northern Illinois. I'll wave as you struggle through down there on 80/294.
You should take 294 to 90 and then proceed West on 90 to Madison. Shouldn't be to bad though as the construction season on the tollways is over, it is now the MASSIVE CONSTRUCTION SEASON on the tollways where they close roads at a moments notice and no warning to you, come September we will be back into the regular construction season. And then comes WINTER !!!

Originally posted by: lloyd338 on 5/26/2007 7:53:03 AM

Goood Morning family, Welll Miss Tommie's Motorized Chair has came in and she is as happy as a kid at Christmas. It is Candy Apple Red (no Metal Flakes), and it has a "Joy Stick" and she can turn it on a dime. She said it can do 15 MPH, but she is keeping it on low until she gets better with the controls. (Yeah, right) The chair should help her to protect her dialysis arm since she won't be rolling the chair by hand anymore. Now we need to get something to carry it on the back of the kid's car until my pick'emup truck is there.
I told Bethany it is offical we won't be able to make the Gathering this year, but things are begining to look up for us a little now, There is progress on the selling of our property (not a done deal yet) and finally talked to the SS people and they are helping me get my SS started since I am not working like I did last year because of the challenges we have had so far this year. (The Lord don't give us Problems, but Opportunities to prove ones' self.) I didn't know that it could have been handle the way we did, or I would have done it at the first of the year. (Would have saved me a lots of problems) I will say the 1-800 number was no help at all, buttttt our local office was GREAT, from the first person I talked to, to the last. And the last person said they get alots of complains about the people at the 1-800 number.(Tell me one more time, who's money is its?)
Well I need to go and work at the trailer so I will chat later.

Originally posted by: cake lady too on 5/26/2007 8:43:57 AM

15 mpg! WE'll never catch her in the Malls now!! LOL Glad it came and is going to make mobility much easier for her. If the kid's car has a hitch, you can get a rack to put in the hitch to put the chair on. I know it isn't something you want to be lifting up and down!
I will send you "package" from MN in case others want to include something. We will miss you two there, but want you both in TIP TOP SHAPE for the Gathering in SA, TX next year!!
I finally finished taking down the "sea" decorations in the garage today. Getting very close to getting my car in there. If the rain would just stop today I could finish it perhaps. Last nights dinner was fun & delishious. Dad came over after for Lemon Merigne pie. One of my sisters and my niece came over also. When everyone left, we watched the last 2 episodes of Veronica Mars.
Why do most all the good shows get dropped?!
Well, gotta go, will check in later.
TTFN
Bethany

Originally posted by: 1dustychuck on 5/26/2007 10:20:07 AM

Just a suggestion but I think that someone should take pictures and movies of what transpires at the Gathering and pass the results around or place them on a web site for those of us who are unable to attend. If you place the results on a web site make it one that everybody can view.
Just a suggestion

Chuck

Originally posted by: dd11 on 5/26/2007 2:54:15 PM

Lloyd,

See Family 26